Category Archives: Interviews

Skid Row is Holyground

Recently we came across a great online video magazine called Enoch Magazine. It intrigued us. So we decided to find out more. After finding out more about them, the more we liked them and their vision. Here is an interview we recently had with Nate Smith, Managing Editor of Enoch Magazine.

Tell us a little about Enoch Magazine. What is it? And why is it?

Enoch Magazine is a non profit media movement that exists online. We travel and film documentaries that show God’s glory in unique and different ways. We also interview bands, have dj mixes, articles, and more. Our big focuses are the homeless and finding out what people’s perception of Jesus is. We started Enoch because we were frustrated with a lot of the Christian Media available out there. It seemed so much of it was living in the Christian bubble and it was frustrating. We wanted to take a different angle. We wanted to find people who are truly serving God but their not famous or anybody special and document that.

What obsticles do you face with running the magazine?

Well honestly finances and time. Its hard to fund all of our trips when we give all our content away for free. That’s ok though. Look in the Bible and never once did they charge to hear Jesus speak or did the disciples ever ask to be paid. We live in an age where we are constantly being bombarded by the digital and print world. If you don’t have a lot of money than you can’t advertise or if you don’t have a lot of time to post your content all over the internet people might not find it. I still work a part time to help fund trips and its hard sometimes to find a good balance.

How has Enoch challenged your faith?

That’s a great question. It seems with Enoch I take it a day at time. Most of the time you don’t know who is reading the articles or watching the videos so you can’t directly see God working. It’s made me remember that in faith God is always behind the scenes and always working and many people don’t give him the credit he deserves. Its made me grow in my trust in finances. We are moving our magazine to Skid Row in Downtown Los Angeles and I have no money and barely enough to cover the gas to get there but I am trusting God a day at a time. It makes me realize he will take care of me. It sounds cliché but he seems to always come through. I definitely have thrown in all my cards with God so I have no choice but to be faithful.

Tell us more about the documentary Skid Row is Holyground that you guys created a few months ago.

A little over a year and a half ago my partner in the magazine Carter Theis wanted to go to a place he was scared of and see God show up. He wanted to go to Skid Row in Downtown Los Angeles and film a documentary about what the need was there. For those of you who don’t know Skid Row is a 9 by 9 block in Downtown Los Angeles where they estimate 15,000 to 20,000 homeless people are living. For us it was about also growing in faith and trusting that the Lord would protect us in what is considered one of the most dangerous places in the United States. That was out first trip and we’ve been back 4 times since then. Over the last year and a half we have released a series of videos called Skid Row is Holyground on the Enoch Web Site. We hope to eventually put out a DVD of our whole experience. We are moving there in a few weeks and we will putting out weekly videos on the Enoch Magazine site and also on Skidrowisholyground.com.

Enoch is moving their headquarters to Skid Row in LA. Why the move and how did the passion develop within you guys for one of the most dangerous communities in California?

Every time we were out there on the streets we hated leaving after we had connected with that community. By just making videos we felt we were not doing enough. We wanted to be down there every day truly making a difference. So, after a few trips we decided that we should move Enoch Magazine to Skid Row. There is never a dull day on Skid Row. It’s exciting! There are so many ministry opportunities down there too. You can do anything from Street Evangelism to music to feeding to discipleship and so much more.

What are some of the needs you are facing?

Well our number one need right now is finances. We have partnered with a ministry called the Jonah Project (jonahproject.org) and we are in the process of buying a building on Skid Row. This building will not only serve as the Enoch Magazine Headquarters but also as a place that will be open for the homeless everyday. They will be able to get fed, get new clothes, go to bible studies and services on Sundays. We also want to have a place to throw concerts that are specficially for the homeless. This building will also be a place that mission groups can come and serve and stay. We want people to come to Skid Row and have the same experience we had on our first few trips. We actually have a website for the building called Skidrowisholyground.com

How can people connect with you?

People can connect with us by going to Enochmagazine.com or Skidrowisholyground.com. You can also connect with us on Facebook, Twitter, and Myspace or email us at info@enochmagazine.com.

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Scouting the Divine: An Interview with Margaret Feinberg

Recently we had a conversation with Margaret Feinberg, author of the new book, Scouting the Divine. We asked her questions about her pilgrimage across the US, caring for a flock of sheep, and Wal-Mart. And this is what she had to say…

Have we heard incorrectly or did you recently come to Oregon, our neck of the woods (or should we say “God’s country”), to spent time with sheep?

I love me some Oregon. Seriously, I HEART the Pacific Northwest. After spending five years living in Alaska, it’s hard not to fall in love with your region of the country. Almost a decade ago, I met a woman from outside of Portland who took care of sheep. I never forgot our meeting all the rich spiritual insights that emerged from her simply talking about caring for a flock. Last spring, I tracked her down, cold called her, reintroduced myself, and garnered an invitation to spend time in her home and among her sheep. The experience was unforgettable.

Why ‘Scouting the Divine?’ Where did this concept come from?

I’ve become increasingly aware that the agrarian world of the Bible is distant from my modern suburban lifestyle, so I decided to be intentional about closing the gap. I went on my own “stay-grimage.” or “spiritual pilgrimage” in the United States. I spent time with the shepherdess in Oregon, a farmer in Nebraska, a beekeeper in Colorado, and a vinter in Napa Valley. With each person, I opened the scripture and asked, “How do you read this—not as a theologian—but in light of what you do everyday?” Their answers changed the way I read scripture forever.

Can you spend a minute and tell one of the truths that impacted you personally while writing Scouting the Divine?

There were so many spiritual discoveries. One I’ve been gnawing on lately came from my time with the beekeeper. I asked him why he thought the Promised Land was described as a land overflowing with milk and honey. The land could have been described as anything—the land of ginormous pomegranates or luscious olive oil. Instead, God chose to make the land famous for overflowing with milk and honey. When I asked the beekeeper, he noted that a land that overflows with honey means that everything is working in its proper order. The winter snows don’t melt too late. The summer heat isn’t overwhelming. The rain falls at its appointed time. The first freeze doesn’t arrive too early. If any of these factors are out of alignment then the grasses and flowers can’t bloom to their full potential and the bees can’t produce honey in abundance. That means that one of the defining characteristics of the Promised Land is that everything works in it’s proper order. I want to enter that Promised Land in my own life.–where I’m living in the season of life God has placed me in to my full potential.

On a side note, we’ve always been impressed – from following you on Twitter and reading your blog – that, despite the busyness of ministry, you prove to remain passionate about your relationship with Jesus. What are some practical things that you do to keep that passion fresh?

Even in the midst of a busy schedule, I try to take care of myself. This may sound so unspiritual, but I try to make sure I’m getting enough sleep. I carve out mornings when I allow my body to drink in as much sleep as it needs. Why? When I’m well-rested, I’m less like to make foolish decisions that lead me into sin and it’s easier to connect to God and respond to His leadings and nudging. I have a hunch the people of God would be far more effective if we were well-rested. In addition, I love to read what I call Bible nerd books. I read commentaries, studies on ancient Israel and obscure books that really feed my spirit and soul. And Leif and I read a Walter Bruegermann prayer aloud together. It’s one of the sweetest moments of our day.

When does Scouting the Divine release and how can people purchase it?

Scouting the Divine is available October 1 and the accompanying six-week DVD study releases from Lifeway in January 2010. You can check it out on amazon.com, borders.com, or my own site—which is launching all-new in October!–www.margaretfeinberg.com. For all you Facebookers, I’m on as Margaret Feinberg and for all you twitters, you can find me @mafeinberg.

Next time you’re in Oregon herding sheep, you’ll have to stop by and say hi.

Would love to! I’ll be speaking at Living Hope Church in Vancouver, Washington, and George Fox University in Newberg, Oregon, in November.

BONUS: When I think of Wal-Mart, I think of … the hidden story of Sam Walton’s heart for caring for the poor that isn’t heard or heralded oenough. I just got back from Bentonville, Arkansas, home of Wal-mart, and discovered countless stories of outrageously generous and good things being done by this shopping behemoth. You’d be surprised at just how much!

007A popular speaker at churches and leading conferences such as Fusion, Catalyst, and LeadNow, Margaret Feinberg (www.margaretfeinberg.com) invites people to discover the relevance of God and His Word in a modern world. Audiences love her ability to connect the practical with the spiritual. Recently named by Charisma magazine as one of the “30 Emerging Voices” who will help lead the church in the next decade, she has written more than a dozen books including the critically-acclaimed The Organic God and the Sacred Echo (Zondervan). People of all ages connect with her relational teaching style. Margaret currently lives in Morrison, Colorado, with her 6′8″ husband, Leif. When she’s not writing or traveling, she enjoys anything outdoors, lots of laughter, and their super-pup, Hershey. But she says some of her best moments are spent communicating with her readers. So go ahead, become her friend on Facebook, or tag her on Twitter at @mafeinberg.

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Anne Jackson: What Are You Rethinking?

Rethink Monthly: Maybe it’s a passage or something that God has been laid on your heart. Maybe it is someone who has spoken to you, or if you’ve sat through a service that may have impacted you. Or maybe it’s the message you are bringing with your book. The simple question is, “What is God causing you to rethink right now?”

Anne Jackson: The biggest thing that God is causing me to rethink is how we, the church in America, look at the church globally. The church in America has a great heart in that we care for the poor, and there are definitely churches doing really amazing things in countries that need our help, and at the same time, I think that there is so much more for our eyes to be open to.

I have had the experience in the last year of being able to travel to three third-world countries. I have been to Uganda, the Dominican Republic, and just recently to India, and the churches there don’t even have basic technology such as running water, toilets, air conditioning, or mattresses. I mean there are so many basic things that we just take for granted in our own world that they don’t have. To see how the Holy Spirit moves inside those churches without the modern technology is just incredible. I think we have a lot to learn from them, and we also have a responsibility to equip and resource them.

It talks in the New Testament that if a man has enough money to live well, then he should be generous with the poor. I also think that since all of us are in this economic struggle and we have things we are struggling with financially, comparatively to the rest of the world, we still have a lot of money too, as well. We have roofs over our heads and cars and debt, (laughing). For most of us it is not hard to figure out how we are going to eat. Definitely in America we have access to clean drinking water, so we have this wealth, and it is our responsibility to be generous to those who don’t. I think that is something God has been showing me, and challenging me in my own world, is what? Not that we should all sell our houses, go live in trailers, and not go to a drastic extreme, but He does say to use our money responsibly, if we have enough to live well. We need to seek His will for each one of us, and it will be different for each one of us. We need to be obedient to that because it’s going to require a sacrifice. I think that is what makes it obedient, is that it is sacrificial.

RM: Do you think we have reaching out to people locally, down? Do you think we need to work on that first or do you think we need to tackle both? How do we go about doing that?

AJ: I don’t think the Bible discriminates and says only go into third-world countries and resource people. Here in Tennessee, I read a really startling statistic that one out of every three children under the age of 18 do not have access to food all the time. That’s just in Tennessee, which is the south where we have big cities, and that really surprised me. I think it was one of out of six adults who don’t have access to food. They don’t know if they will always get a meal. There are definitely huge needs here, especially with the economy.

I think the church is always praying for opportunities like, “God, show us how we can share your love to the world; show us how we can share your love to the community.” Could we have asked for a better opportunity that is staring us right in the face? The church I am on staff at is located in a poor part of town, we have a lot of suburban attendance on weekends, but during the week we have so many homeless people that need assistance like money for gas or for food; everyday there is just an influx of people with these needs. You can tell by looking at some of them that they are homeless, you can tell their skin is weathered, had it rough for a while. Some of these people used to work in a hospital but they got laid off and they seriously don’t know how they are going to pay their rent. So, it is just the church looking to what opportunity God has placed in front of them. For Compassion, specifically, God has placed relationships in the Dominican and in India, and right here in Nashville. It’s just being obedient to what those things are. Some people are going to be all over the world, and some people are going to be within six blocks of their church. It is an “opening-our-eyes” thing; God where do you want me to serve, and then doing it. You know how when you go on a mission’s trip and you do something good or serve someone how you feel so good afterwards? I think that is because we are living out our purpose, because our purpose in life is to love people the way Christ loves them. Once people start doing that, they will get hooked pretty easily and that can have a huge impact on the world.

RM: So, basically, it’s learning how to love a lot?

AJ: You are absolutely right. There is a verse that says if someone has the love of Christ in them, people will be able to tell, because of their actions that have been transformed. So if you love God or serve God just on the weekends or Sundays, or you love your family or your small group, and it is all a very introverted kind of love, then it is hard to see the love of Christ in that, and not that I am judging anyone’s salvation, but if someone has been transformed by the love of Christ on the inside, then it will show on the outside. It has to be like that. Now the Bible says that, not me.

RM: When you were overseas the last time you started the compassion bloggers. Have you seen any benefits from doing that?

AJ: Oh yes definitely! I think there are a few ways personally that I am getting involved and continuing to still listen and seek the words of God. Blogging for compassion has been incredible. They have taken three trips, and I have had the opportunity to go on two of those, and I think we are nearing somewhere like 2,500 children that have been sponsored for those trips. There were over 1,000 sponsored on our last trip to India, about 1,000 for Uganda, and about 500-600 from the Dominican Church.

So that is 2,500 lives, not just the children’s lives, but their families have been changed by that, which is definitely an effective way to get anyone involved. Anyone can read a blog, but it is our job to tell a story of what we see and to pray with people to see that through God’s eyes, and their lives will be changed by sponsoring. Personally, I am truly a believer that if you are not living like you are preaching, then there is nothing solid behind your message.

My husband and I are completely evaluating how we can live on less and give more. We have decided to downsize and are moving into this little 800 sq. ft., one-bedroom cottage that our friends are renting to us for really cheap. We have paid off our credit cards, and it has taken us a while to get to this point, and we are at a point where we are giving “this much” away, and we are evaluating how we spend our money on monthly expenses, so what’s next? What else can we do? We have found that God has always provided. He has placed in our hearts this incredible dream that we don’t have to change the world, but if we can change one life, and Jesus says, “If you do this to the least of these, you have done it unto me.” He didn’t say do it to multitudes, He says if you do it to one person, you are doing it to me. I think that is very powerful, and it can be overwhelming to think that there are a million children that are going to die of malaria this year. And because it is so overwhelming, just focusing on doing on what is in front of you, and who God has placed in front of you, and those opportunities is very empowering and God will equip you to meet those needs. He wants to use us to meet those needs.

Anne Jackson is a former PK, and also has served in a variety of full time ministry roles for the last half-decade. Her blog, www.flowerdust.net, is ranked as one of the highest blogs in Christian leadership with hundreds of thousands of pageviews each month. She is an advocate for Compassion International. Anne and her husand Chris life in Nashville, TN.

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Jud Wilhite: What Are You Rethinking?

Rethink Monthly: In your personal life, is there anything that God is speaking to you that is causing you to rethink the way that you do things in your own life?

Jud Wilhite: Yeah, I think the one thing just this last week, I have been really convicted by is that I think my prayers are too small. I have been reading about the Great Awakening in America and just thinking about how the entire city of Philadelphia went out to a field and heard George Whitfield speak. It has happened before, and like how small my prayers are to imagine the entire city of Las Vegas going out in the desert to hear a message about Christ. I have just been trying to expand my thinking so I will tell you how that played out this weekend. I saw something that I have never seen this weekend. It is one of the things I want to talk to you about on the church side. You know what, I’ll wait. As far as this question goes, I think the big challenge that I have wrestled with is my prayers are too small, and our God is soooo much bigger than I give Him credit. It hasn’t sunk into my life enough and I have really been lit up with that personally. I am just trying to expand my vision of what God can do and who He is, and all that He is accomplishing.

RM: That’s cool. So how does that play out then as you lead your community of people there in Las Vegas? What has God been speaking to you for them? How you can rethink they are doing their community?

JW: This weekend we had learned from another couple of churches that we had so many people come to save and had taken the next step to be baptized, where we did a spontaneous baptism moment where I just challenged people to come down and commit to Christ, and commit to be baptized on the spot. I have never done this where I’ve asked people to walk down forward. We kind of have our own approach to reaching people and impacting people. But it was a kind of non-emotive message, it wasn’t highly emotional. It was pretty straight forward teaching about what it means to be a Christian or what it means to be baptized. We had like over 1200 adults walk down front, and walk right outside and jump in cold water in their clothes and just get baptized. There were so many tears and so much emotion. So the way this played out for me is I’m standing backstage and we are all in tears, it wasn’t just about numbers for us, it’s about the people that we love and just in awe at what we were experiencing. This guy said, “I remember when this church was only 600 people in size.” And we were going to baptize more than 600 people this weekend,” and I had a moment, this is the moment where I thought about how big God is, and I said, “Now we are a church of 15,000.” I said, “The day will come when we will baptize 15,000 in a day.” The guy looked at me and his jaw hit the ground. It’s not about the numbers, it’s just that God can do that, you know? I am finally getting my mind around the fact that God can do that if He chose to.

RM: If somebody would have told you that four years ago, you probably would have been blown away. If you see 1200 people baptized in a day would be amazing.

JW: Yeah, I’ve been in shock and awe for the last two days since this weekend. I have never seen anything like it. We follow a practice at Central where if a person is baptized, you know they are allowed to baptize whoever they may lead to faith or whatever, so we have a fairly loose view that it’s not so much about who baptizes, but it is the fact that you do it. So I’ve watched teenagers who have led their parents to faith, baptize them this weekend. I watched that happen again and again and again. I watched teenagers baptize their grandparents. That’s amazing, you know? I’m standing there bawling my eyes out watching this happen, and I am thinking that the next generation is going to lead, and they are going to lead strong, and I don’t care what all the data says, I am watching it right in front of my eyes.

RM: In saying those two things, your own personal life and convictions that’s playing out in your church, is there any passage of Scripture right now that God is using to speak to you to convict you of these things or to move your church forward?

JW: Yes, one of the biggest passages God has been convicting me with is in 1st Corinthians where it talks about that God chose the things that are not to nullify the things that are. I think this is a passage that has been ringing around in my heart and in my life in a pretty significant way over the last several weeks. A lot of it is probably because of all the stuff that we have been seeing. 1st Cor. 1:27-31 where it says God chose the world considers foolish in order to shame those who think they are wise, and He chose things that are powerless to shame those who are powerful. God chose things despised by the world as things counted as nothing at all, and use them to bring to nothing what the world considers important. Then for me, I love the final part of the whole message where it says, “If you want to boast, boast only about the Lord.” Because God has done this in such a way that only He can be bragged upon and boasted in, and that has been the message I have been championing in. God is moving. He is moving across the nation, certainly in Las Vegas, a city that most Christians have written off. I get looked down upon for even living in this town, but God will use the things that are not, to nullify the things that are. It is all for His glory and His fame.

RM: And it seems that you are seeing that in action, too. So that is a wonderful thing.

JW: Oh totally! And it is not just about us, that we are so good or talented, or the church is this or that, but it’s not, we are just broken, messed up people in this broken, messed up city, and God is doing a work for His glory. We get to be part of it, and that is just awesome!

RM: Anything else that you would like our readers to know as we close up your portion of the article?

JW: I just think that it is all about God and what He has done for us in Christ, and that is our primary boast. That is who we brag upon. That’s whose fame we are spreading and not our own, and the longer we stay focused on that, the more sure our footing will be.

Jud Wilhite lives with his family in the Las Vegas area where he serves as Senior Pastor of Central Christian Church. Over 15,000 people attend Central’s campuses along with a global community who attend online. Jud is the author of several books including Eyes Wide Open, Uncensored Grace and Deadly Viper Character Assassins with Mike Foster.

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Margaret Feinberg: What Are You Rethinking?

Rethink Monthly: What topics/scripture has God been speaking to you, causing you to rethink lately?

Margaret Feinberg: On a recent trip to Israel, we visited the Garden where Jesus’ resurrection may have taken place. As I walked inside the tomb, I was once again reminded of the resurrecting power of Jesus, just the fact that our God is a God of life, who gives life; who brings back to life. Sometimes it’s easy to fall into the trap of sorting through culture wars, keeping a list of do’s and don’ts, or even who’s stacking up the best ammo when it comes to arguing a hot topic of faith. But when Jesus boldly proclaimed, “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life,” He didn’t just say those words, He lived them. The word “life” was never meant to be interpreted as number 3 on the list…something we’ll get to. Life flowed out of Jesus everywhere He went—healing, giving hope, challenging, and even resurrecting. All of this has made me question how much of the life of Jesus I really have. How much do I give that life to others? This thinking and rethinking makes me want to experience more of the life of Christ, and allow it to flow out of me like living waters.

RM: What sort of things are keeping you up at night / moving you to action in your spiritual life?

MF: A hunger for God. I pray regularly for hunger—whenever it wanes—and it’s the kind of prayer that God never seems to say “no” to. He always gives me more. I live with an ache inside that says there’s always more of God to uncover and discover. I want more of Him.

RM: How is that translated in your own life / in the lives of those you influence?

MF: In my writing, it forces me to be far more vulnerable than I am in real life. I have friends who lovingly joke, “Margaret, I buy your books to find out what’s really going on in your life.” So often I want to hold back. I’m intensely private, but then I feel that nudge that if I share those things I most want to keep to myself, God can do amazing things through them. And He does.

RM: Why do you say that when God speaks He does so as an echo?

MF: So often when God speaks He’ll use multiple things to get our attention—a scripture, a chance encounter, an unexpected conversation—all of them help alert us to the ways God is trying go get our attention and speak to us.

RM: You describe God as “surprisingly talkative.” Can you describe one of those moments when God has spoken to you?

MF: There’s a verse tucked away in Mark 6:31 that sometimes, when I’m reading the Bible, will feel like it was written just for me. It simply says, “Come away, to a lonely place, and rest awhile.” Jesus spoke those words to the disciples, but when I read them, or that verse flashes through my mind, it’s like He’s speaking them to me–issuing an invitation to slow down, get away, and refresh.

A popular speaker at churches and leading conferences such as Fusion, Catalyst, and LeadNow, Margaret Feinberg (www.margaretfeinberg.com) invites people to discover the relevance of God and His Word in a modern world. Audiences love her ability to connect the practical with the spiritual. Recently named by Charisma magazine as one of the “30 Emerging Voices” who will help lead the church in the next decade, she has written more than a dozen books including the critically-acclaimed The Organic God and the Sacred Echo (Zondervan). People of all ages connect with her relational teaching style. Margaret currently lives in Morrison, Colorado, with her 6′8″ husband, Leif. When she’s not writing or traveling, she enjoys anything outdoors, lots of laughter, and their super-pup, Hershey. But she says some of her best moments are spent communicating with her readers. So go ahead, become her friend on Facebook, or tag her on Twitter at mafeinberg.

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Francis Chan: What Are You Rethinking?

em>Rethink Monthly: Is there anything that God is saying to you that is causing you to rethink, anything that God is personally doing in your life or in your church as a whole?

Francis Chan: There are a couple of things. One, it’s getting pretty pathetic how people call themselves Christians and how terrified we are of everything. There’s just not the courage, boldness, and the strength that I see in Scripture and there isn’t an emphasis on that. We have people who are scared to talk to their next door neighbors; there are people who are scared to disciple. It’s just nothing like it was in the beginning. There seems like there was such boldness and you couldn’t shut the believers up back then, now we can’t prod them to speak. So, the big thing is just praying for a spirit of boldness in the church again and encouraging people to believe that they can share the gospel powerfully, and that they don’t need their senior pastor to do it for them. So, that’s been a big emphasis in my own life as well as with the church.

RM: What do you think has happened in the church, and specifically in American churches, that has caused us to forget about or maybe lose that boldness that we read about in the New Testament?

FC: I think what happens is that new believers get fired up and start sharing their faith with everyone they know, but once they get into an established church, they realize that no one else really lives that way. Instead, they just attend Bible studies and show up to service and so they just get sucked into that kind of mindset. In fact, people even encourage them to slow down and get educated rather than fanning that flame of evangelism and being on mission. I think the church itself kind of deadens these new believers as the Holy Spirit comes into them, we tame them and slow them down.

RM: What’s encouraging you personally to change that mindset in your own life to be more bold and to interact with the community more than what you think the church has had a reputation of doing?

FC: Well the elders in my church are very much that way, and they encourage me to do the same, so it really is the leaders who I meet with. It’s my closest Christian friends that are being very bold and outspoken for the gospel.

RM: And in your church, Cornerstone, is there anything that you and the elders are being encouraged to do there to motivate people to live out this radical stage or this crazy love that you write about in your book; anything that you are encouraging them to do that you see working in that, that’s encouraging you that they are doing?

FC: What we are learning is that the Sunday morning platform of a guy speaking up front and people nodding their heads hasn’t been the most effective means of moving people to action. It’s a great entry point, and people can change a little bit here and there, but the majority of the people hears the Word and deceives themselves, and does nothing about it. We have really been pushing things in the community. We have been pushing people to literally pastor their neighborhoods rather than looking for a church system or structure to do that for them. We now have lay people in neighborhoods who are acting as pastor, who are separating those people in the communities and doing all the marital counseling, doing weddings, and some even teaching them on Sunday mornings.

RM: Can you share a specific story or testimony of someone in your church that you’ve seen God use in amazing ways to live out this style of life?

FC: Right now there are several guys and there are going to be more. We have a group of fifty people or so that are used to driving in from a town that is about a half hour away and so we encouraged the most spiritual guy we saw there and said, “Hey, why don’t you just start shepherding these people and be their pastor. There is no point in driving a half hour or forty-five minutes every time they need to talk to someone or be counseled. In fact, they started meeting there on Sunday mornings so they don’t have to drive all the way here and either he will teach a lesson or take my lesson, or use a DVD or whatever, then they will eat together, break bread together, and talk about how to reach that community or that neighborhood. So that is happening in a few different areas now. These are all guys that work full-time jobs. It is just really encouraging because they are realizing they don’t need a building and they are just training leaders and when it gets too big they split it up into a couple of houses. Basically they are doing everything one would do in a building on Sunday mornings, but now it is by volunteers that’s in the home so it doesn’t cost thousands of dollars, and there is more accountability of practicing the “one another’s” as in Scripture.

RM: It sounds like it’s the one key that God can show us as ministers and churches and leaders, is to give the power away that God gives them to the people so they can minister to their communities and not feel like they have to be part of an organization that tells them what to do. Would you agree with that?

FC: Yes, it’s basically teaching them that they have power, they have the Holy Spirit in them, rather than the typical model which basically you need one spirit-filled guide for five-thousand people. To lead a service and it would be fine, now suddenly you have all these leaders and they have to be walking closely with the Lord, and they have to use their gifts as well as the people in those homes.

RM: That’s encouraging. Just one more question: Is there any passage of Scripture, or any addition to that, or any book, or song, or film right now that is inspiring you and encouraging you to change your own life as well as the people in your community?

FC: I would say the book of Acts has been the biggest thing lately. I think more and more people are frustrated that the church looks so different than it did. And I’m not saying that God has to have everyone speak in tongues and different languages, and all the miracles in that way like He did back then, but I am also saying that there is no reason why He wouldn’t if He wanted to, that He still could. My main point is that I just don’t see that supernatural power in the church and that has to change. So I would just say that it’s the Book of Acts that none of us have had peace about. Our whole Christian lives we always look at it and go, “Gosh it is so incredibly different” from what we see today, but we resolve ourselves to say, “Well it’s cultural,” or “It’s not for America; it can happen in other countries, but not ours.” I just don’t believe it. I really think the Holy Spirit can do whatever He wants, even in this nation.

Francis Chan is pastor of Cornerstone Church in Simi Valley, California. He is also the founder of Eternity Bible College and sits on the board of directors of Children’s Hunger Fund and World Impact. Francis spends much of his time speaking to students around the country, committed to teaching directly from the Bible. His passion is to see the church display a much deeper love for Jesus. Francis lives in California with his wife, Lisa, and their four children.

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Mark Batterson: What Are You Rethinking?

Rethink Monthly: Maybe God has recently placed something on your heart. Something that has wrecked the way you think or something that has been keeping you up at night. Maybe God has given you a vision for your church that may be different than you have done things before. So, to keep it simple, what are you rethinking right now?

Mark Batterson: What am I not rethinking? I tend to rethink a lot of things, but I’ll just throw a couple of things out. From a leadership standpoint, I’m rethinking staffing; maybe we are even overstaffed. We always feel like we need more staff to do what we want to do, so I’m rethinking of how much of our budget should go to our staff. If too much of our budget goes to staff, then that would allow us to become lazy in not raising up leaders to do the work in the ministry, so I’m rethinking our staffing strategy budget structure.

In addition, this year we will take 10 missions trips to 10 countries in 10 months. It really came out of this single thought: I would rather have people take one missions trip, because I think more happens on a mission’s trip, than people listening to 52 of my sermons. We have been rethinking how we can mobilize people for missions, and the cool thing is as we send people out on these one day, one week or ten day short term missions trips, a lot of them wind up returning to the mission fields on a full term basis.

Here is another thought. We are really motivated by giving money to missions. I always believe that God is going to bless us in proportions when we give to missions. So this year we want to give a half a million dollars, which is great considering that our congregation is 70 percent, single twenty-somethings, and they are not in their peak earning stage. So I am thrilled about that but it is not nearly enough, we need to give millions of dollars to missions, and we will get there, it’s just something to be committed to growing more so we can give more. We own and operate the largest coffee house on Capital Hill. It is a great place where the church and community cross paths. We serve hundreds of customers everyday, and we give every penny of profit from it to missions. Last year our net profit was $89,000. If you want to give a million dollars to missions, you can motivate people to give, whether generously or just sacrificially, and we shouldn’t throw that out. But the way I see it is if we had achieved ten coffee houses, then profit about $100,000, you would be giving that million dollars to missions right there. So what am I rethinking? How we fund missions and leverage finances for Kingdom purposes. Do we have time for one more thought?

RM: Yeah, please go ahead.

MB: I think another thing I am rethinking, honestly, is the way I preach. I tend to be a topical preacher, and I know I am going to step on some toes no matter what I say, so I guess I might as well just throw it out there. I am not a person who believes that you have to teach the Bible in a verse by verse expositional manner, and the reason I believe that is because that is not the way Jesus taught. He taught utilizing parables, having said that, let me say this, over the last year I have fallen in love with the Bible all over again, it just comes out as if I didn’t read it enough last year. At the end of last year I read something J.F. Packer said, “Any Christian with any salt reads the Bible from cover to cover over a year”, and I can’t argue with it. I am a pastor and thought of doing it, so I picked up a Bible and that one decision is the most important decision I ever made. And it has been amazing. I love the Bible, and I have been teaching the Bible and found that I have this conviction of how the Bible is to be communicated in the most memorable ways, and I believe that, but by the end of the day it is the Word of God that doesn’t return void.

RM: How has that new found passion again for the Bible being translated to the people of you minister to?

MB: By osmosis, people see how much we love the Word, or how much we value the Word, so I think, whether it is spoken or unspoken, people can see that we are digging a little bit deeper and drilling down more into God’s Word, and still trying to teach it creatively with high emphasis on application. It just becomes part of your culture, so what’s been cool over the last year reference to the fact that I am reading a one-year Bible is that a lot of people are being motivated to do the same thing. I think it is just something that is becoming a personal discipline in my life, but it is becoming a part of our culture. I don’t know how it is going to work out yet, but if we think about next year, I will utilize some platforms, whether it be by book or by blog. I challenge people to read through a one-year Bible. I don’t know what that will look like going into next year, but I want to be a person who inspires challenges, who encourages people to read the Bible. Just having people read the Bible, but I don’t think the Bible is meant to be read, it was meant to be “meditated on.” Reading without meditating is like eating without digesting, so what we really need to do is meditate on the Word, then ultimately we need to translate that Word into action. In a sense, each one of us has a unique translation.

Mark Batterson serves as lead pastor of National Community Church in Washington, DC. One church with nine services in five locations, NCC is focused on reaching emerging generations. Mark has two Masters Degrees from Trinity Evangelical Divinity School in Chicago, Illinois and is the author of a best-selling book, In a Pit with a Lion on a Snowy Day. His latest release is Wild Goose Chase and he blogs daily @ www.markbatterson.com. Mark is married to Lora and they live on Capitol Hill with their three children: Parker, Summer, and Josiah.

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